I'm switching sides

[nih]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?...ectID=10337437

These cunts don't represent me or my way of life. Neither do the other lot. I am hereby officially joining the martian colonies.

[kall]

Jesus christ. That's fucking horrible.

No other words to describe it at the moment. Just fucking horrible.

[nih]

This was my sentiment too. I couldn't find something vile enough to describe the people who created and then blindly followed such practices.

Christ, what do we do? If the world is going to hell in a fucking handbasket, how do we stop it? I guess the answer is to be the first to follow every avenue of disputing crazy methodologies and laws. I know we don't see much of this madness in NZ, but I'd hate for it to come here.

[trogg]

This is just insane.

Some reports are saying that up to 20 plain clothes cops were following the poor bugger and with him coming from an area of Brazil where there are death squads that shoot people for no good reason is it any wonder that he shat himself and ran like hell to try and save himself?

There is some seriously fucked up stuff happening in this world at the moment and I have to ask if anybody can tell me what the G8 decision on African poverty was WITHOUT resorting to a search engine?

As much as I don't want to suggest it because I will sound like a conspiracy theorist I have to wonder about the timing of the tube & bus bombings and how the almost shelved idea for a UK identity card is now back on the table. After all, what are 53 (including the innocent Brazilian) lives when the powers that be can push through draconian laws to control the masses.

And then to make it worse, one badly aimed missile or laser guided bomb in Iraq can kill FIVE times as many as died in London and yet it is hardly mentioned in the media because they are not westerners that have died.

Where the fuck is the balance any more?

*rant ends (for the moment)*

[nih]

I can sum up the next big trend in this war in just three words:

Dead man trigger.

[Cinque]

Well, perhaps if he had gone back to Brazil when his visa ran out two years ago he'd be alive right now.

There would have been more of an outcry if he had been a bomber and been allowed to get away.

Anti-terrorist shoot to kill policy is nothing new here. The only difference is that it is now officially sanctioned rather than just done as it was during the IRA era when suspects would be neutralised on sight in case they were carrying a remote detonator. For more information check the Gibraltar incident.

[Nas]

Its pretty unusual for armed police to challenge people on the streets of London.

Given recent events, you'd think anyone would obey their instructions pretty promptly. Mr Menezes had surely been living in the UK long enough to know the difference between the UK and Brazil.

I appreciate that some immigrants may have different experiences but to be honest the best advice they can be given is intergrate as fast as you can, these days your life may depend on it and so might those of the people around you.

I'm sorry for the guy and his family, but given that he ran for it, allegedly leaping over the ticket barriers to get on the tube while armed police were yelling at him to stop, did he give them much of a choice? There had been attacks in that area the day before.

To quote Mr Menezes cousin "If you are going to have a war on terror, you have got to use brains to fight it not just brute force."

We ALL have to use our brains. We ALL have to be sensible.

A few days ago I passed Police armed with automatic weapons in close proximity to my home. I backed off and let them pass. It was really not very difficult to do that.

The message has to go out that ordinary people of all nationalities living in London will NOT put up with terrorism.

And do not forget that it is beginning to look as if the terrorist masterminds are killing their own people to ensure they leave no trace. The 7 July bombers were carrying identity; there is speculation now that they expected to survive. Were they suicide bombers by choice? One left a young child and very stunned pregnant wife. Something very, very wrong there.

How much force is too much and how little is too little?

[nih]

Well, perhaps if he had gone back to Brazil when his visa ran out two years ago he'd be alive right now.

There would have been more of an outcry if he had been a bomber and been allowed to get away.

Anti-terrorist shoot to kill policy is nothing new here. The only difference is that it is now officially sanctioned rather than just done as it was during the IRA era when suspects would be neutralised on sight in case they were carrying a remote detonator. For more information check the Gibraltar incident.

You don't know your own heritage. Your police and army went around assassinating everyone around the IRA, not just in it. Lawyers, negotiators, their families, etc. If your government is going to kill someone for you, I think you should become familiar with them and the situation around it. It seems only fair.

Your lot have just as much blood on their hands and are just as much terrorists as the filthy a-rabs.

In any case, the dude ran because he was terrified. Back in Brazil the government has a history of executing refugees as they land on the beach, and homeless kids if they can catch them.

I think the issue remains this: police agree to put their lives on the line to protect us, not put civillians on the line to do it. A proper response would have been to hold the guy down and do their best to make the situation safe.

Like I said earlier, shooting the guy is just as likely to make the threat go from being a possible one to an immediate one. Terrorists aren't stupid. The first thing that goes through pretty much everyones head is: "next time they try to blow shit up the bomb will be set to go off when he releases the trigger rather than presses it."

[Cinque]

You don't know your own heritage. Your police and army went around assassinating everyone around the IRA, not just in it. Lawyers, negotiators, their families, etc. If your government is going to kill someone for you, I think you should become familiar with them and the situation around it. It seems only fair.

You know what they say about assumptions.

But anyway, I don't remember excusing anyone of anything - I was stating facts, not trying to namby pamby anything up. I'll think you'll find that no "heritage" is without bloodied hands, some of us have the ability to accept this and move on however.

Regardless, the point remains - shoot to kill is now officially sanctioned (since March 2002 actually), previously it was done by certain sectors of the security forces but always denied. Either way, it sends out a clear message to everyone whether they are trying to fuck things up or not - you better surrender first time or you're dead. It's not a difficult concept, and to be honest I'm happy with that situation. There have been too many fucking idiots killing ordinary people and the police for too long, it's about time WE took the power back.

It's not a case of SO15 running around shooting anyone who looks like they might be slightly suspicious (if that was the case, my number's up). They followed this guy because he came out of a building that was under surveilance, chances are his face didn't fit (probably bceause he was supposed to have been in Brazil for the past two years), when confronted he ran (uh-oh bad move), he went for the underground (you know where shit got blown up a couple of days before) - now those two things alone are enough to get you thinking "Shit, we got a situation here" - his pursuers training is to neutralise the target according to the threat presented. The perceived threat in this case was HUGE - that was why he was killed.

Now let's play the game of what ifs:

What if he had been a bomber - how many people would he have killed on that train? How much of a backlash would the police have had then?
What if two years ago when his visa ran out he had gone back to Brazil? He'd be alive and happy with his family.
What if he'd surrendered when challenged? He'd currently be in Paddington Green Copshop for a while and then sent home to be happy with his family in Brazil.

Personally I don't buy the whole "well they do this and that in Brazil" story - he shouldn't have been in the country, and he shouldn't have run. That may appear to be heartless but if you step away from the bleeding heart of the situation and look at it objectively it stops being so black and white on the right and wrong.

Prove me wrong my Kiwi chums - how would you handle this situation (the whole terrorist thing) so that it's a win-win situation with no killing of anyone. Then tell me how you would deal with the situation when Mr Menezes got shot in the head seven times. These are dangerous times, mixed with dangerous thoughts - actually scratch that, the only thing that's changed in 2,500 years is the sophistication with which we kill each other over who has the best imaginary friends.

Hopefully you Kiwis will never have to live with the threat of terrorism in your country.

[trogg]

WTF is going on other there

"I was in tube bomb carriage - and survived"
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news...79a86926f9.lpf

He and Crystal were helped out of the carriage. As they made their way out, a policeman pointed out where the bomb had been.

"The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train. They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag," he said.

The question has to be asked, what price do the people pulling the strings of Bush & Blair put on the lives of ordinary people when it means they can push ahead to their goals ?

[Lina]

I think I'll go live on Mars for a while.
Anyone need me? Leave your anger and weapons at the door.

[The_Welsh_contingent]

A proper response would have been to hold the guy down and do their best to make the situation safe.

Dude, WTF are you thinking?? So according to your thinking a terrorist on his way to blow up shit will lay down because of armed Police and give himself up?? I think not!! If police were to go anywhere near him/ them they will set that shit off without a second thought, and then there will be huge world outcry that the Police didn't keep the public safe, blahdy blah.

As for having buttons that set off the explosion when depressed, I doubt it, too much room for error and explosion being let off when there is no real impact.

As has already been said about this guy, he was an overstayer, he came from a building that was under surveilance, he was carrying a backpack, Armed police called him and he legged it. If all this is true then everyone's thinking would be that he is up to no good........ if it was me, the guy would seal his fate when he decided to run to the tube.

If, however, some of the stories that are now starting to circulate are true, the Police should be hung!!

[kall]

I'll say this much - a guy with semtex strapped to his body makes a very impressive boom.