[JKoB]

So first they told us we can't smoke in public (I'm not a smoker anyway), then they say we can't smack our children (I don't have kids). So what is next? I'm getting sick of being told what I can and can't do. My lungs are not the governments, I know I could smoke at home but when you go out, you should be allowed to smoke. My Kids don't belong to the goverment, so i should be allowed to discipline my kids how I like, within reason. Words don't do anything. You all know the saying, Sticks and stone may break my bones, but words will never hurt me!

Come on. This feels like a dictatorship!

[kall]

Technically, you can still physically discipline your kids PRIOR to them doing the bad thing (pulling the boiling pot onto themselves) or if they are behaving Offensively (swearing, throwing food).

I saw this on TV, so it must be true.

[NNY]

nah i hate walking past smokers on the street smoking is disgusting sure you h ave the right to fill your lungs with poision but you dont have the right to posion someone walking down a public street. "but its my right" that doesnt really sound like a good reason for stupidity to me.

I'm sick of people moaning about our attempts to push society forward, individual rights are not a very good excuse to continue our bad habits.

in saying all this i think that we've had enough social reform people take a long time to adjust to change and it sounds like new zealand has had enough for now.

[JKoB]

so you're happy with being told how to live your life. If they want to stop people smoking, ban smoking in full. Stop cigarretts from coming into the country. They won't because they make too much money from them in tax!

No wonder Kiwi's leave.

[NNY]

no one is being told how to live they just being told to practice their filthy habit in private theres nothing unreasonable about that.

You'll find in most other developed nations there are similar laws about smoking, ffs in china its illegal to spit in public. simiply if you want to smoke thats fine thats your right just do it somewhere where it wont bother anyone else.

you should pay heavy tax on ciggerettes cause later when your old broke and dying of cancer at least you'll be paid up front cause i'm not keen on my tax money going to your hospital care.

instead of bitch moan wah. hows about stop smoking? its gross

[JKoB]

Originally Posted by NNY

no one is being told how to live they just being told to practice their filthy habit in private theres nothing unreasonable about that.

Saying it's a filthy habit is an opinion. That's like saying drinking is a filthy habit and should be done at home.

You'll find in most other developed nations there are similar laws about smoking, ffs in china its illegal to spit in public. simiply if you want to smoke thats fine thats your right just do it somewhere where it wont bother anyone else.

It was fine before. No one complained. People only complain now because they want to be heard.

you should pay heavy tax on ciggerettes cause later when your old broke and dying of cancer at least you'll be paid up front cause i'm not keen on my tax money going to your hospital care.

But your money will go towards it. No matter how much they tax them.

instead of bitch moan wah. hows about stop smoking? its gross

How can you say that? No one is forcing you to smoke. Once you get into bias opinions, you loose the arguement. And just because other countries are doing it, doesn't mean it is good for this country.

[NNY]

none of those are good reasons to smoke. we know that smoking is really bad for us, but we are too stupid/or cant be bothered to help ourselves, the media is finally now starting to shift smoking from cool to uncool to this generation of preteens - teens,

so given that the attitude towards smoking in this generation of teenagers (or prehaps more likely the next), i think it is a good time to push tobacco smoking into our past. Yes we have the right to smoke but we also need to be saved from our own stupidity

Review of the Evidence for Major Population-Level Tobacco Control Interventions

The international literature reports high quality scientific evidence for a number of the population-level tobacco control interventions used in New Zealand. In many cases there is supportive New Zealand-specific scientific evidence for such interventions being effective.

New Zealand policy-makers and health workers can be very confident in the scientific basis for major components of the current New Zealand tobacco control programme. Nevertheless, there remain some population-level interventions for which the evidence-base is limited or insufficient and for which further research may be required before their appropriate role can be more accurately defined.

Tobacco consumption has reduced by a third in the last ten years. All New Zealand workplaces, including bars and restaurants, are now 100% smokefree, a change that has wide public support.

Evaluation of the Impact of a New Smokefree Law' showed more than 90% of Kiwis now live in smokefree homes. In 2003, 59% of Maori households with one or more smokers and one or more children were smokefree, increasing to 74% in 2006. This compares to 65% of similar non-Maori households in 2003 to 68% in 2006.

uh oh looks like the majority has spoken. So what we are saying is that we completely understand your side of the arguement, its just that we dont give a shit. The only people who are bitching about are smokers who are are now a minority.

[NNY]

Tobacco - Question and Answers

oh yeah that link too.

[giantfrommars]

hey.

well just because the smokers are the minority that doen't mean that people can treat them like inferior human beings. to smoke or not to smoke is a decision of every induvidual and the majority have no right to force someone to behave on the way that majority wants it.

i do agree that i dont know there isn't allowed smoking in place that serve food (restaurant, or place like that). but i have a proposition; i believe that every each pub shoud determine if the pub will allow smoking or will be for non-smokers. simple as that. if the pub is big enough to offer place for not-smokers and for smokers that is ok but the place for not-smokers will have to have a very good ventilation and it would have to be completaly separeted from smoking allowed area. also the smoking area have to have a very good ventilation.

About smoking on the street, well i don't see that as a problem... people should have to be allowed to smoke outside on the street. if the land is property of someone they could say no smoking there but in public street or place there is no problem.

I am not a smoker, i was when i was younger but i can not let the majority force the minority to act the way the majority want it, because someday the majority will want to force me in something i don't want to do or restrict something to me that i want to do and who will say no you can force him if i will not raise my voice now.

THIS IS FOR THE SMOKERS!

[JKoB]

Originally Posted by NNY

uh oh looks like the majority has spoken. So what we are saying is that we completely understand your side of the arguement, its just that we dont give a shit. The only people who are bitching about are smokers who are are now a minority.

Then why the hell did you even reply to this thread if you don't give a shit? What you're saying is that your opinion is correct, and everyone elses is wrong. If you don't give a shit, piss off. No one asked you to reply. Just because you religously against smoking doesn't mean everyone else is. If you're so against smoking and want it out of peoples lives, join politics. I'm sure you'll fit in there.

[NNY]

an excellent counter argument!

[JKoB]

Well, answer it. Why did you post a reply if you don't care?

[NNY]

no no i'm just reciting what the government is saying (we non-smokers/government)

I think smoking in public should be banned because i think its gross but JKob told me that my reasons werent good enough so we are not talking about my opinion i dont particulary care much for this government but i agree with them on this one. In new zealand when bullshit laws are passed we protest loudly like we always have done, on this issue there are no protests there no prime time debate, there is no campaigning there is only whinging.

seeing as their hasnt been an actual arguement for smoking other than telling me that i'm an asshole, which is fine there is no pro smoking arguement posted up here because there is no pro smoking arguement.

New zealand only wants to know about individual freedom when its in a context that suits them, but you are not just an individual you are part of a community that makes decisions together.

swimming alone at sea is not the kind of freedom that you actually want because it would mean that you would have to figure it out for yourselves.

If you could actually come up with a valid reason as to why you should be able to smoking in public then you might get somewhere, all thats been done so far is whinging. the i wrote the posts knowing that this is a senistive subject for many people, but even when provoke you still dont stand up for yourselves you just tell me that i'm an asshole. if thats all you've got then at least tell me why i'm an asshole we could debate that if you would prefer.

most pubs have provided smokers areas sheltered, outside with heating what is unreasonable about it, no one is telling you, you cant smoke. Its next to impossible for the government to stop someone from from whatever they want into their bodies.

lifes not fair, helens holding the country for ransom wah wah wah wah wah. Go live in a country that is actually living under a dictatorship for a bit and then come back and tell me how hard done by we all are.

[JKoB]

Then shouldn't they have let the public decide? I've lived in China and that can't be more a dictatorship/communist country. What is happening here is not far off.

[NNY]

did you check the policies of each party when you voted? did you vote? now that you've brought communism into the debate lets talk about communism, do you know what communism is?

maybe you did maybe you didnt maybe you do maybe you don't.

did you know that this planet has never seen a true communist society, stalin, mao zedong, and che all adopted their own versions of communism which ignored the basic principals of communism which is that everyone contributes equally to society has equal "wealth". Also communism hasnt worked so far because it still used a system of centralised government.

now you are talking about the system and if we want to talk about the system we need to start with capitalism and why its not working. Capitalism is founded on the principals that any individual has the freedom to pursue happiness whatever their interpretation of happiness is now for alot of people this is money and given the current state of the world they are probally right.

So the pro-smoking arguement is the same. I should have the right to put whatever i want into my body.

If you would like to know more this site provides more than enough information/ provides links of many different styles of government how they work or why the havent.

RevolutionaryLeft.com (Powered by Invision Power Board)

the health effects of secondhand smoke
our failing health system
here are some facts/stats on smoking related illness

Tobacco Facts 2002 - Health effects of tobacco smoking

what about the fact that the issue of smoking in bars has nothing to do with the customers, it was an issue because bar employees have to spend the entire evening in a room full of people smoking and drinking. Even if the bar staff are smokers themselves do you actually think it is okay to spend 8ish hours constantly being exposed to smoke? So what if employers just hire smokers that are okay with it? would that been a better solution?

when you walk down a cbd during the normal break times most of the people standing around out on the street are smokers, most of the people passing by aren't. most of the customers to retail are (at the risk of sounding sexist) women and children who dont smoke. i cant really believe this needs explaining

do you think the government just spends the day talking about and passing law over lunch?

the next time a law you dont agree with is being passed, pay attention and if you dont agree voice your opinion before its too late. yes you should have an opinion and we have systems in place where you can voice your opinion you just chose to never find out how. You are entitled to your opinion but if you cant justify it why should anyone care?

[Neophis]

I smoke, and it does not bother me, to go outside when at a pub and have a smoke (there are usually more people outside smoking, then inside anyway). I would rather meet another smoker anyday, then to have to drive home late at night, wondering if the car coming toward me has a drunk driver in it ..

[rainmonster]

since they have made smacking against the law, i have seen several parents give their children a wee tap in public and to me it's not yet really sunk in that it's technically a crime now. i wonder how the police would react if they saw a parent give their child a smack when out in public? how exactly are they going tp deal with it? arrest the parent? fine them? i try not to judge parents who choose to smack and parents who choose not to. everyone has a different view.

[SPAZo]

the anti smacking bill is because all those alcholic/polynesians/ p smokers people etc
are smacking the shiz out of there children.
i was in the clubs the night smoking was banned
i grew up being hit by a jug cord and spatchla.
it builds you as a person as long as its not to much.

what next?
ban party bills
then put higher restrictions on tradesmen etc
i hate the goverment somtimes.